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In response to this:

Nathan,

I did not mean to suggest that we should not be attempting to discern what is true and what isn’t true. But rather, that this is the task in front of us. And whatever we claim, is exactly that: our claim. When we label things as christian, what we are really saying is that “I think this is inline with my understanding of what it means to follow christ.” I guess the problem is that we all have very different understandings of what that means… which makes using the adjective in a global sense very difficult, and dangerous. But that is just “my claim”.

You said…

“I believe we can know. And I believe the Bible teaches that we can know what is right and what is wrong.”

The bible does not mention GodTube, “christian” books, “christian” music, etc. So your ideas of what the Bible’s perspective is on these this are no more valid than mine. The difference is that you are claiming your perspective to be God’s. I am claiming my perspective to be my perspective of God’s perspective. I never said that God approves of my perspective… but it seems you have somehow interpreted it that way.

Note: I removed the text from the Jonathan Edwards quote you referenced. It was quite long. If it is in fact public domain please consider extracting the relevant pieces and referencing where the source can be obtained.

-Russ

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Russ,

You said, “I guess the problem is that we all have very different understandings of what that means… which makes using the adjective in a global sense very difficult, and dangerous. But that is just “my claim”.”

I’m not sure if you read the quote I put by Jonathan Edwards (you are right, it was long, sorry but I felt the whole was needed, and just so you know it is public domain, he wrote it about 200 years ago), if you did, that’s fine, if you didn’t, that might be why you still have a problem with adjectives or labels. Language is our tool, if we cannot use it, or if we do not allow people to us it, how will we communicate?

You said, “The bible does not mention GodTube, “christian” books, “christian” music, etc. So your ideas of what the Bible’s perspective is on these this are no more valid than mine.”

You are right, the Bible doesn’t mention these things. So I guess we’ll never know will we… If you truly believe what you have just said, you would not have written what you wrote. You are saying that everyone’s opinion is worthless (or of equal value making them worthless in the end), because the truth of the matter cannot be found out. If the truth cannot be known, there is absolutely no reason to try and search it out because in the end, you have nothing.

I do not agree with your statement about everyone’s opinion being of equal merit – if their opinion is human based, I would agree with you, it is worthless. That really is the problem isn’t it, because as humans, our wisdom is as good or as bad as everyone else’s, because it is opinion, and men lie as well and are limited in their knowledge. But I want to move us from man’s opinions to God’s.

You said, “I am claiming my perspective to be my perspective of God’s perspective. I never said that God approves of my perspective… but it seems you have somehow interpreted it that way.”

So I ask you, if men can only give a perspective of God’s perspective, how can men know if someone is really true or not? I am capable of lying, of misunderstanding, therefore what I say must come from God’s Word; truth must originate outside of man, because men cannot be trusted. Truth must come from God if it is to be real.

If no one can know what is true, what is the value in attempting? Buddhists have a perspective on God’s perspective. What makes Christianity better, or more true then their opinion? If what you claim is correct, being a Buddhist is just as good as being a Christian and the end result of it all is unknown.

Again, I ask that you interact with the Bible and Jesus’ words about truth and the value of the words or thoughts of men. Our ideas have no value and cannot be trusted. But, God has revealed himself to us, and can be known.

“Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, “If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”” (John 8:31-32)

“We are from God; the person who knows God listens to us, but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.” (1 John 4:6)

If we claim things on our own authority, we are arrogant. If we claim things on the basis of God’s revealed word, that is humility and truth.

“The person who speaks on his own authority desires to receive honor for himself; the one who desires the honor of the one who sent him is a man of integrity, and there is no unrighteousness in him.” (John 7:18)

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